well George Galloway MP is here
congratulations um you going to be any
more conscientious representing the
people of Bradford than you were in
Bethal Green Oh don't start by insulting
me now let's not go off let's not get
off on there a more serious Point here B
start you only attended 8% of votes
during your time there as I've explained
to you and others many times before in
the Commons you can only vote for the
government's motion or the leader of the
opposition's amendment and seldom wished
to vote for either in that 5 years my
attendance in Parliament was daily my
attendance in votes depended on what the
issue under discussion was but you know
what Jeremy I won you're going to have
to get used to that I won a great
Victory I've already congratulated you
well yes but not sincerely evidently no
quite sincerely it is I said it was one
of the most epic Victory maybe the best
answer I can give you then is evidently
the people of Bradford West think so
because they voted for me an
overwhelming number well I'm quite
struck by the phrase that you used we
heard it there the Bradford spring I was
just Str me as an odd form of words for
a man who described president Assad
Syria as the last castle of Arab dignity
please don't think that I'm on trial in
front of you Jeremy you're not fit to be
my judge the people of I'm not judging
you I'm just thinking it's a very odd
form of words well evidently the people
of Bradford West who frankly matter to
me far more than you do uh are the judge
of what I say and what I do
and they judged in a democratic election
18,000 of them to put their ex next to
my name so they evidently were not put
off by your misrepresentations of My
Views about Syria in fact you did you
did I've seen the email you did describe
Assad Syria as the last castle of Arab
dignity I did in 2005 and 2010 in fact
no it wasn't in 2010 it was the 14th of
August 2010 well uh my speech in Syria
was in 20 no we're not we talking about
an email not your speech when you talked
about what a good chap asset was the
email you sent Let Let Me Tell well that
was at the time he was sleeping in
Bingham Palace in the Queen's bedroom he
wasn't sleeping in Bingham Palace in
August 2010 the Syrian people are the
last castle of Arab dignity they are the
last castle of resistance to Israeli
occupation and to imperialist Intrigue
in the area but I don't think that was
an issue in the Bradford West byelection
of great for spring please accept that a
big uprising of people peaceful
Democratic Uprising unknown unnoticed by
you you didn't send anyone there the
London media didn't send anyone there
and yet it happened has to be
characterized as something new in
British politics they were not voting on
My Views about Syria neither on My Views
about uh how to vote in House of Commons
uh division which are largely
meaningless to most of them which is
what this discussion really should be
about we're going to get on to that I
just want to get one other point with
you which is this why did you say God
knows who is a Muslim and he knows who
is not I George Gallow don't drink
alcohol I never have I George Gallow who
fought for Muslims at home and abroad
all all of my life now why why wouldn't
I say that well it I just interested as
to why you found it necessary to say it
because the labor candidate was going
around campaigning on the twin basis
that he was a Pakistani and a Muslim so
I believed that that playing Shameless
playing of ethnicity as an electoral
card was something that needed to be
answered and ordinarily of course if it
were me that were being accused of it
you'd be the sternest critic people
shouldn't vote for I've never had anyone
ask for my boat by telling me how much
they drink that's all I was just curious
well I mean I don't drink and he does
all right let's talk uh let's talk a
little bit about what this Victory uh
for George Galler is a it is a
sensational result let's talk about what
it represents Ed milleran was talking
about how you your party needs to listen
why didn't you realized that before I
think he's always spoken about that it
was a sensational result and I think to
be to be honest Jeremy you do a
diservice to people of Bradford West by
focusing on George does George drink
what George said about the people you
know what he chose to say in a democracy
you have to listen when people vote in
those numbers and clearly the people of
Bradford we
best that they they were trying to get a
message through to the political
establishment and I think the underlying
message it's not just issues about um
Afghanistan although whether you live in
Bradford or TB worlds you wonder what on
Earth was still doing in Afghanistan 10
years after the beginning there is an
issue though about the huge economic gap
between north and south and it's a
mistake to write off Bradford West as
some people do we need to listen to that
message we s but at a broader level what
is going on do you think in people's
attitudes to the mainstream parties well
they're falling away from them I we've
got consistently lower attendances the
attempts of both the Tories and labor to
launch themselves in some sense as mass
membership parties has largely been a
failure and I think that the kind of tip
Fort business of politics you know the
Liberals came into the last election on
the face of it with an honest desire to
try and change that and to Try
introduce
fo well you know I yes it fooled me and
in a sense I didn't think that they'd be
so feeble when it got to the negotiating
procedure I thought it's a a party that
understood how proportional government
worked they might have been prepared to
sit down the point is it's over for the
lips but you know I must say this that
every time there's a sensational
byelection going all the way back to
Eric luk and opton people say this is
the end of Politics As We Know But funly
enough no one no one saying it's the end
of politics but have you do you notice
it in the conservative party as well
well yeah I think so I mean this has
been a wakeup call I think for all the
political parties and it may well be
that a future byelection even in this
Parliament that the conservatives may
have big problems and I think part of
the issue actually was the way we do
politics everything is focused on the
marginal seats so what happened in
Bradford what was interesting was I
don't think labor had any idea of any
data about what where the voting
preferences were so that come close of
polls they' sort of assumed we've won
again like we've won for the last 40
years and that's why it was such a shock
I think to the labor party so did Tory
polling predict that George Gallow was
going to win no no he didn't but
again we all I'm sorry I'm not making
I'm not try to make an anti-labor point
I'm making a point that the whole Focus
now of politics is on the 80 to 100
marginal seats where everything matters
all the resource goes in I think that's
the relatively small armies of of
members that all the parties's your Sol
working that what's your solution I
don't think there are easy solutions to
it and uh the reality I'm afraid is uh
this is one of the difficulties I think
there was great excitement when the
Coalition came in two years ago about a
new Fresh politics no there was well in
I think from some people there was
George I detected none of that I must
say I was house house at the time but I
you need to get out more part part part
of the problem I think now is that
essentially we have got probably
diminished living standards in this
country for the next decade and it is
going to be incredibly difficult no
government of whatever stri is going to
be popular and no opposition is going to
be trusted not least because we may well
be in a situation rather like the 1960s
and70s where will be chopping and
changing at each and every election
going forward and that think that is
going to be the main problem the point
isn't the point about Bradford you know
George was campaigning when you were
campaigning you were saying that there's
this Brad re system uh among uh certain
erdu people in in the labor party in
Bradford there's a system essentially of
patronage it's good old Tam style
politics and in a way there's a Brader
system operating at a national level as
well the political class offers cures in
a way it's viewed as a closed loop it
doesn't
matter a George G it's a parallel
universe Jeremy I mean Mark is a a
gentleman and an expensively educated
one but
frankly frankly he he might be from Mars
to the streets of Manningham there youth
unemployment has risen 40% in 12 weeks
and tripled in a year the mass of the
people are in absolute poverty in
British terms not relative to other
countries in the world but in British
terms Mass poverty and these politicians
not Diane but the political leaders
speaking a different language to them
and about different things to them it's
a rather beautiful inverted world isn't
it Bradford George you've got an
enormous hole in the middle of your city
where is a Westfield meant to be unlike
the enormous Westfield on statford mares
C parts of the country that have not
never recovered from the
de-industrialization of the that years
and now the Coalition is slashing public
sector spending no wonder there's no
hope but you see the interesting thing
about George what what what whatever
even his critics will acknowledge that
George Galloway gave people who voted
for him something to hope for let's hope
well I I'm afraid I think rather
misguidedly I mean well it's in George's
problem and respects problem in general
and there they're in a coalition with
some rather unlikely fellow Travelers
who don't necessarily even want to
travel with George sounds like
the namely the swp but all of these
groups to some extent you know demand
representation and represent a part of
the vote and we don't have an electoral
system that is capable of reflecting
that level of diversity and all due
respect no pun intended to George but
what he had in Bradford was a Synergy
between the conditions he describes the
economic and social conditions and a
particular local disaffection on two
issues British foreign policy because of
the ethnicity of the
and a disection with the local La of all
it's not it's not just Muslims that
think we should come out of Afghanistan
it's not just Muslims who were very
disolution by the Iraq Professor self of
course is a distinguished figure of
Academia so he'll want to hear this the
university Award of Bradford West which
as the name suggests is as plural
ethnically and uh in other senses as it
can be I want 85% of that vote and and I
want it because your friends in the
liberal Democrats absolutely betrayed
the university community and the student
Community who from this September will
be paying £9,000 a year in tuition fees
that was not a Muslim issue that was a
young person's issue yeah
but I'm not going to reverse it but I'm
going to speak for them I'm going to
speak out and I as has happened already
I am heard when I speak people are
paying attention to what I'm saying
because of this result yes but
essentially you'll be sideswiping actual
parliamentary politics you're a lone MP
in sense okay let's let's leave that
that but that question that that that
George Galloway raises of how the
liberal Democrats behaved in making a
very very public pledge which on getting
into the first sniff of power for
decades they immediately Ren upon that
has destroyed a tremendous amount of
trust main very dissolution absolutely
it's a
political I mean you you backed him
didn't you bought I voted for I would
say G
Professor the
Liberals that's the one on the street
they really are headed for we'll have to
we'll have to wait and see but is this I
wonder if this sort of behavior is the
consequence of Coalition what happens
when you have coalition government no I
I think there is an element of that
we're not used to coalitions in this
country the notion that after an
election that essentially a coalition
agreement is reached which is like a
sort of tablet of stone compared to the
manifestos that were put to the public
at large and that is a problem and and I
think it is get to caus a certain amount
of disillusionment there is this whole
sense as you say that there's no
legitimate mandate for quite a lot of of
what is going on um but a lot of that of
course again it's driven by the economic
situation which again none of the
political parties labor liberal or the
conservatives leveled with the public
before the last election about how
serious it was we were we were dancing
on the edge of a pin saying about6
million pound is the difference between
Armageddon and uh and sunit Uplands and
that that I mean there there were some
of us who did actually say at the time
listen this not the way to to go about
it but a line after the disillusion has
been the well not dis perhaps not
disillusion but but the fact that the
the voter has become more promiscuous
more volatile more changeable has
something that's been going on for 40 or
50 years isn't it well the irony
probably is fun enough in the next
election um there's been this dimin in
the vote for the main two main parties
conservative and labor party probably it
will actually go up slightly the next
general election because of the collapse
one assumes to certain V
going but I don't disagree with with
what you're saying and I think you know
the clip earlier on was very very
interesting because actually what you
have is a lot of small single isue Pro
protest groups who basically are very
targeted and they deliver and the
feeling is the political class just
makes a lot of promises every time and
partly because of global factors and the
power of international business you can
also take your concerns elsewhere can't
you you can take your concerns to a to a
charity to you can tweet you can you can
you saw that that 38 degrees if they
really have a million members that's
hundreds of thousands more than any of
the political parties here hang on a
minute the stop the war Coalition moved
millions of people in the runup to the
Iraq War uh people are in CND they're in
all sorts of things longer trust parties
but it's not one or the other it is not
single issue pressure groups all
political parties they work together
none of this actually feeds into
legislation you know you can be as mean
as you like about the lib Dems and the
reality of it is that actually if you're
a libd party member in theory you have a
say in what goes into the manifesto and
becomes so that's why the lib Den
betrayal looks so bad on the other hand
if you're a member of the Tory party you
can suddenly wake up to find your a
government introducing a piece of
legislation like the reorganization of
the National Health that you had no part
in you didn't even necess the top rate
of tax and tories are very happy about
that you know the actual disconnect
between being a member of the Tory party
and a Tory government is you know
necessarily could be perceived as you
say we've we're a less Democratic party
in that sense in the sense that we've
always taken the view that we get on let
the want then let the team get on unless
you want everything to disappear in this
kind of gloop of Civic mindedness and
vague internet petitions what you want
is people to be keyed into the business
of making legislation to feel that they
have a stake leg to say the Tories
haven't delivered for Tor voters cutting
tax cutting the public sector putting up
the price of PES of course theyve
delivered for key Tory voters but D to
be
serious there's actually long longm isue
I think about kept in power by the
liberal Democrats there's a longer term
issue I think about whether we have a a
a distinction between the executive on
the one hand and legislator members of
parliament are legislators to be voting
on The not not being whipped through in
quite the same way now that's a fair
where ahead I let's let's have let
George gway have the last word go on
well I think Will's actually on to the
real point that there's a paradigm shift
that the system has failed that the
Tweedle D Tweedle Dum Tweedle d and a
half have if a backside could have three
cheeks they're sitting uh in the House
of Commons across each other in fake
opposition but they all stand for the
same things neoliberal economics Cuts in
public expenditure and War abroad that
Paradigm has to be smashed open I I hope
that that started on Thursday okay thank
you all very much thank you now it
always used to be said that whatever you
thought of individ